The Oldest Continuous Civilization in the World is What
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| This is a claim I sometimes hear, and I question on what basis it is made. For I can think of another civilization, just as old if not older than China, which is BETTER preserved, especially after Mao's cultural revolution. That is India. India is still an incredibly traditional place, where old age customs permeate everyday life. The Indus valley civilization is probably as old as Mesopotamia, and older than the Huang He. Sanskrit and Pali derived languages are still spoken, as well as Tamil, one of the world's oldest languages. Tamil has certainly changed a lot less in 2000 years than Mandarin Chinese. India also has a lot more preserved historical monuments (the Sanchi Stupa dates from 300 BC, China's oldest temple is only from 500 AD). One could also make the same argument for Greece, Egypt, Rome or even the Hebrews.etc. I don't think China is all that unique, although it's still a fascinating culture. |
12-02-2012, 09:02 AM | | |||
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| Greece I don't think is as old as China neither is Rome. Greece and Rome both date back to around the 8th century BC. Ancient Israel dates back to around 13th century BC though the Canaanites came a few centuries earlier. The Shang predate all of those as they were founded sometime between 1800-1600BC Furthermore Rome is not a contiuous civilization. The same can be said for the Indus valley civilization since there is nothing really left of their civilization except ruins. We don't even know how to translate their language. As to preserved historical monuments I think you are ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room which would be the Great Wall which started as walls built during the 7th century BC and was united as a project under Emperor Huangdi around 206BC. The only real competition for China in terms of oldest civilization would probably be Egypt though it is questionable how much of Ancient Egypt's civilization and culture was intact following the Roman and Islamic conquests. The answer is almost none. |
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| Imperial China began with the Qin dynasty around 200 BC and ended at the beginning of the 20th century. Thats well over 2000 years of one solid, identifiable culture who's outlook, technology and ideals hardly changed. India did not maintain a cohesive empire for anywhere near as long, nor did any other place in the world. India's history is full of conflict, religious upheavals, regime changes, invasions and CHANGE. History of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Going by the OP's rules we can call the United States an ancient empire too because people have been living here for around 11,000 years. |
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| Quote: Originally Posted by Chango Imperial China began with the Qin dynasty around 200 BC and ended at the beginning of the 20th century. Thats well over 2000 years of one solid, identifiable culture who's outlook, technology and ideals hardly changed. India did not maintain a cohesive empire for anywhere near as long, nor did any other place in the world. India's history is full of conflict, religious upheavals, regime changes, invasions and CHANGE. As I said the only culture that can really compete is ancient Egypt since Dynastic Egypt was a relatively stable identifiable culture with little change from about 3150BC to 332BC, but that is no longer continuous in any real way into the modern age where China is still hugely shaped by ideas from its imperial past. |
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| Quote: Originally Posted by Randomstudent Greece I don't think is as old as China neither is Rome. Greece and Rome both date back to around the 8th century BC. Ancient Israel dates back to around 13th century BC though the Canaanites came a few centuries earlier. The Shang predate all of those as they were founded sometime between 1800-1600BC Furthermore Rome is not a contiuous civilization. The same can be said for the Indus valley civilization since there is nothing really left of their civilization except ruins. We don't even know how to translate their language. As to preserved historical monuments I think you are ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room which would be the Great Wall which started as walls built during the 7th century BC and was united as a project under Emperor Huangdi around 206BC. The only real competition for China in terms of oldest civilization would probably be Egypt though it is questionable how much of Ancient Egypt's civilization and culture was intact following the Roman and Islamic conquests. The answer is almost none. Little except artifacts is left of the Shang, and almost nothing of the Han, in terms of buildings, while there are countless Roman remains. Even the Song has little in the ground to show for it. Heard of the Warring states period? The Chinese Empire was unified in the Qing, younger than Rome. One could argue Rome continues today in European civilisation and the Catholic church. |
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| Quote: Originally Posted by Trimac20 Little except artifacts is left of the Shang, and almost nothing of the Han, in terms of buildings, while there are countless Roman remains. Even the Song has little in the ground to show for it. Heard of the Warring states period? The Chinese Empire was unified in the Qing, younger than Rome. One could argue Rome continues today in European civilisation and the Catholic church. First China was unified under the Qin not the Qing. They are two different dynasties in very different periods. Second, the warring states period was before the Qin and therefore before the Han and way before the Song historically it came after the Spring and Autumn period which was the end of the Zhou. So you cannot really blame the warring states period for destroying Han buildings. As to the Song China is dotted with Song Era equipment that is still used in rural villages. Particularly water powered machinery In fact there is a whole lot left from the Han and Qin. Furthermore the ancient cities like Luoyang, and Xi'an still exist so you cannot really say what they built is gone. There is also a bunch left from the Han culturally most notably the fact that the Chinese tend to call themselves Han Chinese which is a combination of those 2 dynasties Han for Han and Qin for China. There is also Cofucianism which is a pretty lasting legacy of the Han Dynasty which institutionalized it. Building wise there is of course the Great Wall, and the Tomb of Shi Huangdi. All of which are marvels and then of course there is the Grand canal which is probably one of the biggest engineering feats the world has ever seen. As to the Catholic church that is a bit of a stretch for a Roman legacy especially since they spent more time trying to surpress it then anything else. Christianity sort of showed up as a force at the end when Rome was going into severe decline. In fact Christianity only gain large scale acceptance as the state religion less then 3 decades before Rome fell to the Alaric. Furthermore other then the city itself there are no more Romans left in the world where as there are lots of Han Chinese. Last edited by Randomstudent; 12-02-2012 at 08:29 PM.. |
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| It's a really hard question to answer and largely relies upon what we are going to define as civilization. What many sources credit is that China has the longest lasting continuous civilization per the western definition of civilization. Heck, we have Chinese writing and histories that go back 3,500 years and at that point China was already an "old" civilization. I think the overall estimate is that China can trace a path of continuous existence back some 7,000+ years. There are equally ancient civilizations out there, but I don't think any of them have the same continuous cultural lineage that China does. If we want to limit it to cultural "civilization" then groups like the Inuit, Australian Aborigines and several African groups easily have cultural traditions very much alive today that stretch back over tens of thousands of years. Of course, none of these meet the urban-centric definition of civilization. |
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| Civilization is overrated, anyway. It is certainly not the paragon of a culture. Not that civilization does not have its benefits. |
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| China is one of the oldest continuing civilizations. According to theThe Columbia Encyclopedia, in its article titled "Civilization," the earliest civilizations developed in the following parts of the world: "Mesopotamia, Egypt, China, India, the central Andes, and Mesoamerica." |
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| Quote: Originally Posted by Chango Imperial China began with the Qin dynasty around 200 BC and ended at the beginning of the 20th century. Thats well over 2000 years of one solid, identifiable culture who's outlook, technology and ideals hardly changed. India did not maintain a cohesive empire for anywhere near as long, nor did any other place in the world. India's history is full of conflict, religious upheavals, regime changes, invasions and CHANGE. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_india"]History of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL] Going by the OP's rules we can call the United States an ancient empire too because people have been living here for around 11,000 years. Most scholars date the arrival of humans in Australia at 40,000 to 50,000 years ago, with a possible range of up to 125,000 years ago. |
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